How effective are donate buttons? I mean, if you had 100 Readers, would even one of them be likely to donate? I've seen wikipedia raise several million in donations, but I'm not sure how much a normal site can expect.
Also, what percent of people do you think would agree to donate $0.50/ month? What about $1/Month?
Personally I see asking for donations a bit cheesy. Beggar-ish. If you can't afford the $4/month for hosting and you desperately need to be paid for your time blogging, then you're either in need of a better job or some training on getting advertisers.
I've only EVER given a donation if the person has provided me with something useful... a WordPress plugin, for example. But those "Like this blog? Buy me a beer!" things annoy me and make me think that this person is only in it for every red penny they can squeeze out of it.
Just MHO...
I don't have a like this blog buy me a beer thing, but I do have two buttons at the bottom of the side bar for donations. They may be a bit cheesy I guess, but I don't have any other advertising on the blog for now.
I actually could afford $4 for hosting if I so decided, but my hosting doesn't actually cost anything anyway.
I'm not exactly in it just for the money, but I would like it to eventually pay enough to live on, so that I could dedicate myself to doing it, rather than having it be second to my other endevors forever. It may never happen, but I can dream, and if I'm unwilling to accept money for my work, that will be a dream that never comes true. Today, I'm a student dish washer, but my dream is to be a writer, so Blogging is right up my alley, and considering I only need $600/Month, I don't think it's out of the question. All I'd have to do is impress 600 People enough to donate a quarter every week, or 1200 people enough to deserve a quarter every two weeks and I'd be able to get by on writing alone. Also, it's not an all or none game. The more people I can get on the list of people who enjoy my blog enough to flip me less money then they'd give a hobo who did nothing, the less dish washing I'd have to do to get by, and the more time I could spend writing.
@BloggingGuy i would have to agree with @larakulpa. You sound like you are looking at squeezing a few pennies out of your readers. What you need to focus on is how you can give them real value. A valuable product that they want.
People offer their opinions all over the web (and other places) and don't expect to get paid so why should you get paid? If you can give an answer to that question then maybe you are on to something.
Scanning (very briefly) through your blog site it looks like there is some content on blog writing and some about your ideas about being a man in the modern world. They seem to be opinion pieces and nothing wrong with that but the blog does not seem to encourage interaction and or participation.
I would say if you offered workshops or talks to mens groups then these would be your product. You need to build a real word community (maybe you have one?). Do you do dating workshops/coaching for men? A course in 'how to be a man'? I'm sure you may be able to sell either of these things but I don't actually see a 'product that you are actually selling.
Contrast your offering with http://heroworkshop.wordpress.com/
He does not include any adverts on the blog and a great deal of content. It's obvious to me that the guy has integrity and the 'product' he is offering is his workshops not his blog writing.
Hope this helps you.
All the best ~ Dave
~ my profile hub ~
Thanks, Dave - great points.
Another option would be to create a membership area - but ONLY if you've got the time and knowledge to give it 110% value for the money.
There are PLENTY of ways to make money with a blog, that are valid and not begging for pennies. Another thing to take note of? If you're valuing yourself at $0.25 or $0.50 - no one's going to think you really have much value to your content at all.
I would rather pay $40 to attend a workshop, feeling like I'd get something out of it, than a quarter a week to something that I'm not sure I couldn't find elsewhere for free.
Please don't take these comments as an attack - but just another perspective you may not have considered. If you want to make a business of this, you have to think like a businessman, not a student/dish washer looking for extra cash. If that's all you want, get a better job than being a dish washer. You know?
One more thing - you'll have a higher perceived value if you host your own blog/site... again, spending the money to make more.
It's true that there are opinions all over the internet, and that there are sites offering similar or better content than my own. I'm not looking to make people pay though. I don't want to force anyone to pay, and you may have missed the real purpose of the question in your responses.
Although, I don't mean to seem like I'm begging to anyone, I also don't want to be expensive or exclusive. I'm not trying to force anyone to pay, and I certainly don't want to ask anyone to pay a lot. Don't think that I'm valuing myself at only a dollar or less, because that would be a misinterpretation of my meaning in stating that amount. I am more valuable, however I simply feel that people would feel easy in parting with that much money, and it wouldn't be at all a burdon to the people paying it.
I'm sure at some point I may start producing far more valuable content, and while I would be willing to offer workshops in anything from communication to living as a man, I have yet to do it.
I'm more interested in writing, and I'd have more time to do it if I didn't have to work. For that reason, I have begun to think on ways to monetize. If I was looking for every red cent, I could monetize through AdSense or PayPerPost. However, I think I'd be better off subsisting on other money.
I'm not even close to ready to live on it yet, but I'm looking at the hows and whys, and I don't see how donations seem so greedy.
What I asked though, wasn't about whether you approved of my asking for donations. What I asked, was:
"How effective are donate buttons? I mean, if you had 100 Readers, would even one of them be likely to donate? I've seen wikipedia raise several million in donations, but I'm not sure how much a normal site can expect.
Also, what percent of people do you think would agree to donate $0.50/ month? What about $1/Month?"
So, I wasn't really asking people who think Donate Buttons are a bad plan. If ProBlogger said not to himself, I'd think differently, but the point is it's not what I asked. I was asking people with donate buttons about how effective they were.
Thanks for your imput though.
Okay, well it's a safe bet I'm making that Darren (aka "ProBlogger himself") would agree that they're pretty useless and a bad plan... I'll ask him to come in here and weigh in himself if that would make you feel better, however it's the middle of the night in Australia now, so it likely won't be for several hours.
That being said - my reaction as it being a "bad plan" is related to your question, because to answer you directly, I don't think they're effective unless you're offering something of high value... resolving a need... similar to what all who've responded are saying to you.
I think you're looking for someone to tell you, "YES! I've made lots of money off my donate buttons!" and I'm sorry to say that I don't think that's going to happen for you. However if you wanted honest answers and opinions, well that's what you got. They may not be the answers or opinions you're looking for to support your idea, but they're honest answers and opinions none the less.
I've been doing this for over a decade... I've been "blogging" since before it was even called that. Believe me, I've tried it all. Donation buttons don't cut it. Call me what you will, choose to ignore or disbelieve if you will, since I'm not Darren... but I assure you I'm not new to this.
I didn't mean to disregard what you were saying, it's just that it didn't seem to me that it answered the question. I wasn't really looking for a Yes, so much as an "You may need roughly X readers to make even one donation" Whether the X was 100 or 20,000,000.
You're right though, not very effective is an answer. I just didn't see it because it wasn't in the format I expected, that format being how many readers I would need.
The problem for me though is that on the one hand I don't want to make people pay, but on the other hand I'd like to write for a living. I'm perfectly aware that's not going to come to pass for a while, but I'm trying to take steps in that direction. To make $600/Month, I must first make $1/Month, and that's really what I'm working towards at the moment.
So, if donate buttons aren't a good idea, how should a new writer go about paying the rent? DeepSpin mentioned semenars/workshops but that won't work for me because I can't really go anywhere, and I don't want to make a members only anything because I don't want to force readers to pay. Is banner ads really the best solution, or am I overlooking something?
Note: All circumstances are based on the assumption that in the future, my readership will rise and my writing and content will grow and improve in quality on an average learning curve.
Do you know ProBlogger? I would be interested to hear his side of it too, although I understand your answer better now.
I know him very well, hon... I'm an admin for this forum (pointing under my name on the left there) and over at ProBlogger.net. He's a dear friend and a great boss. ;)
You do indeed have to start somewhere, and the fact that you're trying to come up with a plan is wonderful... but don't plan your weeks or months to the detriment of your year. Does that make sense?
If your focus is writing for a living (which is a great goal, don't get me wrong) then you need to figure out how other people are doing it first. They're going to sites like Freelance Writing Jobs and looking for ideas and job opps and connections with other writers... they're building their own blogs and selling direct advertising on them or using affiliate links (properly). They're becoming experts and masters of their favorite niches and expanding upon it in the form of ebooks and merchandise and workshops.
They're NOT using donation buttons asking for a quarter. ;)
Seriously - you're undervaluing yourself. If you're willing to accept a quarter, why should anyone give you a hundred bucks? Follow my thinking there?
Yes, I follow your thinking. And I agree that my plan needs to be sustainable and expandable in the long term. That's why I'm eschewing short term money like PayPerPost. They would offer decent payoff at this level, but it isn't expandable, and it would hurt the blog in the long term.
The thing is, while I may be undervalueing myself, I only want what I need, and I want it to be sustainable. You may be right that it's a bad plan or a dead end, but I feel that donate buttons are better than other meathods at this point in the blogs development, and it's expandable and sustainable, because as my readership grows, I would have an increasing number of people willing to donate. At least I would in theory...
Also, I don't really want anyone to give me $100, not that I'd object at all if someone wanted to. ;) What I want though is for a lot of people to give a tiny amount, that way no one is burdoned with my support, and no one person revoking their funding will really be able to hurt me financially. I'm sad to hear that donate buttons are a flop of an idea, because it seemed like the ideal meathod to acheive "cloud cash" support style that would allow me to eventually make blogging my full time job. Full time job though being a loose term, since I'm only seeking to generate around $150/Week.
Out of curiosity, roughly how many visits a day do I need to generate an average of $150/Week?
I think it makes a blog look unprofessional and desperate - at least with the specific price amounts that you have. I read the article you have up currently and it is excellent - don't sell yourself short by those donate buttons! Also, you can pursue advertisers now - just start cheap. For example, offer ad space for $5/month. As you grow, up the rates. I would advertise your rates, just track down some places you like and offer them the space at the cheap rate. No one knows inexpensive they are but it will make you look more professional and add ad appeal. For all people know, you have charged $100/ad. Know what I'm saying?
"I don't claim to have found the truth but I know it has found me." Sara Groves
@sarahmaeblogs on Twitter<
Interesting comments here. I'm new to the blogging scene, but I've been online for many, many...many years. I will say a word of encouragement for "donation buttons" simply to the point that when I come across a particulary useful or informative site...and I see the donation button...I am not opposed to giving some money and have done so many times in the past. If....IF...the information is useful, timely, appropriate, etc, etc. I usually give $10 or $20 dollars...once I sent as much as $50.00 to a site that just had exactly what I needed at exactly the time I needed it. Maybe that's rare, but I believe in contributing to other people's efforts if it's good effort. There is one site I donate to regularly so that site has continued to produce content I find useful. There's a lesson there...and it's not buried very deep.
By the same token...and much more common...I find sites that are asking for money that provide no value at all. My contribution to these sites are in direct relation to the amount of value I get from them....zero.
So my friend, I would say that if you have truly valuable content, useful....timely...relevent....thought provoking...then there is no problem with a donations button on your page. A small percent will contribute but develop a loyal following or....heaven forbid....a well-off sponsor (so to speak) and things get rosier. The simple math is that if the donation button isn't there, you get nothing from it. If it's there, it may pay off. Don't bet the house or your future on it, just continue to provide quality content and keep your day job.
Hope this helps....kinda goes against what others are saying but then again, that's just the kind of guy I am! :-)
Perry - perry@teentriumph.com
*I meant to say I WOULDN'T advertise your rates!
How about working a regular old job to pay the rent until you have good traffic, lot's of readers, and an advertising income?
I am working a regular job. I'm working mostly in the theoretical here, as I'm aware I can't quit my day job until my Blog has started paying enough on average.
You're NOT going to get $150/week with donations. Period. It's not going to happen. That's what I'm saying. Not now, not ever. Not unless you're offering something unique and problem-solving. (Like I mentioned, with a plugin or ebook or what have you.)
And if you want to be a freelance writer - you're going to have to expect payments upwards of $100 in order for anyone to think you're worth it. LOL
Again - if I were in your shoes, I'd be working hard at developing a good reputation, high quality content, and maybe selling some direct sale ads. You may not be making a ton off it yet, but it's better than those donate buttons.
In the meantime, LOOK for freelance writing jobs (that link I gave you offers lots, and often). I promise you, you'll be up to $150 a week in no time that way. A LOT faster than with a donate button (or three, as the case may be).
@BloggingGuy
I have found direct sales to be a good method for beginning blogs. I have started a very low rates on my blog ($5 per mon.) But I have three paying advertisers, so I get $15 dollars a month plus the affiliate sales from my fourth advertisement. I find that this works well, so I am not even considering donations.
Hope this helps!
Nate
Debt-free Scholar - A growing college finances blog
You will need a lot of traffic to get $150 / week in donations. Its not impossible, but its very unlikely.
I give away the ravatars wordpress plugin, and ask for donations on the download page. The plugin is a mild success (1,700 downloads from wordpress). I also have a page on my blog where I answer questions about the plugin, help with installing it, etc. That page has had 3,000 visitors since I started using analytics, and has a donate button too. Donations so far: $0. Yep, not a single donation.
If your blog is still in the early stages, I would suggest going with a mix of adsense and affiliate links. After you get a strong readership, you can start direct advertising. If you aren't convinced, put up a donate button as well and compare the results.
Dear Blogging Guy,
As a professional writer who has kept writing as the first and foremost activity my entire life, I'm responding to your very poignant question "...how should a new writer go about paying the rent?" It's natural to be asking these questions right off the top, as you clearly want very much to create more time to write, and spend less of your time doing things which are not meaningful in order to survive. Every serious writer has walked this valley.
So welcome to blogging. The world of blogging is definitely a good place for writers, and many writers do make at least a small income through their blogs. Here's my best advice for you. Create COMMUNITY. Get your mind into the place of "what can I give to my readership?" You do have something to offer, even at the beginning stages. Many (probably millions) of people are interested in reading about your journey as you follow your desire. This is basic human interest.
To move closer to having your blog become a source of income, think long and hard about your readers every day. What can you give your readers that they are looking for? How can you engage them?
There are some basic formulas to successful blogs and they will never change. You must build a loyal following, one blog post at a time. You must begin your own subscriber list. You need an opt-in, where people basically say yes to joining your community, give you their email, and will accept emails you send them. This is the open door to future income. You must create some kind of unique document (you're a writer, right?) that your readers will enjoy, and offer this as your gift when they subscribe.
Don't look for any other options. Your ability to attract and keep a readership is what will sustain you in the future. And it takes time. Start now.
Carefully use adsense and affiliate links, or wait on those until you have some substantial posts for your readers.
Walk away from the Donate buttons. Use them only to support something other than yourself.
By the way, there's the hidden formula in all of this: Figure out who you can help and how you can help the most people in your target audience. The more people you can effectively help, the more money you can expect to make.
It's a beautiful system. Successful people are using it. Start building your community.
Be well,
Suzanna B. Stinnett
Brain-Friendly Blogging Method
Okay, so if donations are both ineffective and cheesy, I guess I'll stick to advertisments.
I've Generated 8 advertisment slots on my blog. Only the one's that are filled are visible though. They are in the side bar, and are about 125x125.
Although I don't expect anyone will be interested in buying adspace yet, I'm currently asking $1/Month for the lower set and $5/Month for the upper set. Does that sound reasonable? Am I under cutting my potential? Should I be asking for more?
I'd like to make my way up to charging $1/Day on the lower ones ($30/Month) and $5/Day on the Upper Ones ($150/Month). Any Idea's for how much traffic I would need to ask that much?
A good rule of thumb is $2-$4 per thousand pageviews, per month. It's by no means a hard and fast rule, but it's a good guideline for most blogs.
So if you had 5,000 pageviews per month, and you were charging $2 CPM (Cost Per Mille/Thousand) then you'd be making $10 per month. That same number of pageviews could get you upwards of $20 per month on the higher end.
Then you've got other options, of course, including text ads, banners, footers, feeds, newsletters... lol but for 125x125 ads, that's a good jumping off point. I'd start high, and work your way down if need be, as it's always easier to lower your price than it is to raise it.
ALSO - I'd get out of the "per day" mentality... again, you're limiting yourself there, as who wants to manage that kind of on-and-off payment/display scenario? Monthly only...
I know Darren has a post on this somewhere over at PB but I don't have time right now to hunt it down for you... I'll come back later if you haven't found it yet.
Okay, if I set my rates as you suggest, I'll need about 625 average visits per day to get my needed income. Not that I need that much and then I can stop, but I should make that level one of my goals.
I'm getting an average 14 now, so I'm pretty far off for the moment, but at least I know which way to point my shoes.
I don't really want to consider too many ad's. This is just because I don't want to have ads plastered all over the site.
Did you say I can charge for advertisments in my feed? What sort of pricing would you suggest on that?
Well it is PAGEVIEWS that matter most - so if you're not using google analytics yet, or another reallllly good stats pkg, I'd find one. (Hits and pageviews are kinda different - hits can include search engines, which you don't want to include in your numbers for advertisers.)
You sure can charge for adverts in your feed footer... again, I think Darren has written about it, but you can always just go a little lower than what you're charging for on-site adverts, or you can say something like "$3 CPM for the site, and if you add the feed ads, it'll only be $4" or something like that...
It sounds like you're definitely opening up your thought process on this, which is really great. Play with numbers and ads and so on until you find something you're comfortable with that's helping you make some decent cashflow. :)
Wow, I had no idea about that ad rule of thumb - I need to be charging a lot more! Thank you!
Yeah, I hadn't ever seen rules of thumb like this. Even if they're not really definitive and certain, having a number to use is something I've felt kind of desperate for.
Do you mind if I quote you in an article I'm writing for Friday about how much money someone can expect to make Blogging?
Larakulpa, the site your name links to is returning a not found error.
Ack! Thanks you guys! :) All fixed. :)
BG - feel free, and thanks!
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